Hello,
there's been a pleasing upsurge of interest and coverage of the subject of unspoilt pubs recently. Paul Bailey kicked it all off with a post making reference to his Kent pub guide and the subject was covered on this blog here. The linchpin of this developing interest was the list of Classic Basic Unspoilt Pubs of Great Britain.
Rodney Wolf Coe's list only ever featured pubs that sold real ale, and was compiled, it seemed, largely as the result of tips and recommendations from throughout the UK. It got me thinking about 2 notable farmhouse pubs in Derbyshire - The Queen Adelaide at Snelston Common* and the Lodge, near Stretton, which never featured on the list versions I've seen. The problem was, there seemed to be a dearth of info about The Lodge (this info itself came about as a discussion in 2010 between Wee Fatha and a couple of blokes in a pub in Ashover!) so I tried to conduct a bit of research.
As far as me and WF could ascertain, The Lodge was a farmhouse pub, located up a road that soon became a track, near Stretton in Derbyshire. I only ever went there once (assuming I ever did!?) and I'm not even certain when that was. My mind tells me it had a barn door reminiscent of a hatch, and some sort of signage, and beer kegs outside. And that's it.
Frustratingly my visit wasn't even as a drinker - it never opened during the day and we just happened to be passing and wanted to know if I could get a soft drink.
Further uncertainty surrounds the name. Colloquially it was referred to as Bill and Ben's, a haunt for local farmers who'd gather after the work was done late into the night drinking probably keg Mansfield. WF described it as a "Mansfield house" but I think given the location of the pub I'm not so sure. Convinced that it wasn't a proper tied establishment, we tried to work out the pub, such as it was, name, based on a map of the area. There is a Handley Lodge farm in about the right place, linked to a road by a track, and there is another farm further up called Stretton hall farm, WF claims the pub had hall in the name but I think a more likely pub name was the Handley Lodge, shortened simply to "The Lodge". But is any of this true?
I have now received an early copy of the Ramblers Association guide to the fledgling Chesterfied Round Walk. It uses 1980's Ordnance Survey map fragments to assist walkers in interpreting its directions. There is a pub marked off New Road (as WF insisted) but on the A61 side of the railway - where the walk doesn't go. So to locate the pub I need to head off that way and knock on a door or two! Here's what I found.....
Ashover New Road isn't a joy to walk along since large stretches have no pavement. I joined the guides directions at the point the walk joins the road and first started up a bridleway that headed for Handley Lane and Handley Lodge farm. My plan was to also see if there was or had been a pub the other side of the railway, where its marked. Luckily, I bumped into a local couple out walking their dog, and despite my rather fractured picture and poorly sourced info, they knew where Bill and Ben's was. It was 3 miles away. And there had been a pub on the other side of the railway. Cue a walking history lesson!
The couple told me that Bill and Ben's was a farmhouse pub. However, it was called The Press, and is in the Alton and Press area of Ashover, near to Old Tupton and Wingerworth. Bill and Ben it seems have long since passed away, but there was agreement that a new license application was considered or even lodged in the last 5 years or so, possibly by a Mr Bigley. It was also suggested that Bill and Ben were quite old when they were running the pub, and that when it got late they'd retire to bed and leave a tin for the customers to put the money for their beer in.
There are a few candidates in Press, looking at the map, most notably Northedge Hall Farm and the higher of two Press Farm's. This, however, is still based on my farm up a track idea - and now I'm not so sure about that even! I will do a bit more searching and may even twist Wee Fatha's arm to drive out to Press and Alton one day for a neb, but the chances of getting a pic, either now or from the past seems slim.
One final point is that the 1980's Ordnance Survey map which I assumed had placed the PH sign on the wrong side of the railway due to a lack of space, is in fact correct, in that there really was a pub on Highstairs Lane called the Hideaway - now a much extended private house, but having a possibly 17th core, the front of which was the pub.
So, although not scientific, I think I trust local knowledge better than my fragmented memories, so am happy to have some certainty about the location of Bill and Ben's but disappointed that I have still not seen the building. And, the 1980's map also shows a no longer trading pub near Poplar Farm on Holmgate Lane at Henmoor, which is only just off the Chesterfield Round Walk route. Which makes me wonder - have I simply attached the idea of the farmhouse pub I visited being Bill and Ben's, when in fact it was Poplar farm?
There in lies another expedition.....
Wee Beefy
N.B : Nearby was another unusual licensed building, this one surviving until very recently (and one which I managed to visit one summers evening in 2008) , that being the New Napoleon, overlooking Ogston Reservoir. This presumably wasn't always a pub, obvious not least by its unusual interior layout, but also because when Ogston Reservoir flooded the valley, it covered the Ashover Light Railway and a pub, The Napoleons Home. And carrying on through Ashover, on Slack Hill, A632, a farm on one of the two left hand turns (Slack Lane being one, as you head towards Matlock) also used to be a pub. If anyone has any info on any of these pubs I'd love to hear about them.
*Update : I have finally found a picture of the Queen Adelaide (I just discovered that in a Freudian slip I called it the Quiet Woman...) - here's a link on the excellent Lost Pubs Project website .
Showing posts with label Classic basic unspoilt pubs of Great Britain 1994. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Classic basic unspoilt pubs of Great Britain 1994. Show all posts
Sunday, 13 January 2013
Monday, 12 November 2012
A fascinating but dwindling list
Good evening,
I spotted an interesting post on Paul Bailey's blog here about the resignation from the CAMRA (you've seen the CAMRA) of legendary unspoilt pub hunter Rodney Wolfe Coe.
It struck me that not only does the list he is renowned for compiling, the Classic, basic, unspoilt pubs of Great Britain, link together through its possession a wide range of unspoilt pub lovers over a huge area, but also that of those who have a copy, very few have thought to reprint them online. I think we (sic) are missing a trick.
Of course, there is the issue of whether RWC would mind. Given that his denouncement of CAMRA's dedication to the modern at the expense of the traditional, as its claimed he stated in a letter to Whats Brewing, it seems unlikely that he would have considered making his list an online tool, or that he would stumble across it via Google on a quiet evening. Its still his list though, irrespective of the level of perceived assistance he had in compiling it.
I picked my copy up in the Duke of York in Elton (above) years ago, and have carefully, erm, misplaced it since. I remember there were plenty of pubs I had never visited, but a version I discovered online last year lists plenty I had never even heard of, testimonies to the existence of which linger on only by virtue of the scantest of references in disparate bodies of text across the worldwide web.
More frustratingly, having found a copy of the 1994 list online, the address www.btinternet.com/~stannett/worth-a-visit/old_pubs.htm
no longer works. Having been known to me for a long time its particularly frustrating that I never thought to copy it.
A quick look around the Tinterweb shows a copy of Worcestershire CAMRA's Pint Taken magazine, which, on Page 13 of the Winter 2005 edition mentions a final 11th edition of the list, now featuring just 12 pubs! Since I don't have Word and this is a PDf I have saved what I hope is a "picture" of page 13 which, with any luck, will be shown below. Apologies to Worcester CAMRA if it does work. Apologies to everyone if it doesn't... (there is also a link here )
 |
| I don't know how to make the text larger, sorry! |
I wonder therefore, given that the leaflet allegedly started out with over 160 pubs, if anyone would be willing to dig out the editions in their possession and copy them into the blog comments (or better still blog or host them and post the link), or, whether anyone out there knows RWC and would ask for his thoughts on such an idea? It would be fantastic, whatever the route taken, to arrive at having this invaluable picture of our fast disappearing pub heritage in one place.
It would certainly be interesting to find out whether potential inclusions that I also never got to, such as the Lodge at Shirland and Queen Adelaide on Snelston Common, both in Derbyshire, ever made the mark.
Finally, in response to the question posed at the end of Paul Bailey's blog :
of the pubs listed, the Welcome Stranger, Eagle at Skerne, Red Lion at Llandovery, Red Lion at Stoke Talmage, Horse and Trumpet at Medbourne and Seven Stars at Halfway House no longer trade, and the Bath in Cheltenham, Three Tuns in Hay on Wye (now a pub and restaurant, shudder...) and even the Sun at Leintwardine, have had varying levels of change that would or might disbar them from a 2012 list. Hope that helps.
Wee Beefy.
Friday, 9 March 2012
More positive news perhaps?
Hello,
last month I reported that the fantastic but slightly dishevelled New Inn at Hadlow Down in Sussex appeared to be destined for some dreadful enforced "renaissance" from pub and defunct hotel to a restaurant with swanky new hotel and crappy landscaping thrown in. Regrettably in the world of unspoilt pubs, this is not exactly unusual.
Buildings, ignoring the inconvenience of the pub within them, are often seen as piles of cash rather than redoubtable retainers of atmosphere and shared history who's preservation serves to remind future visitors of the stories once told and played out in their walls. The Horse and Trumpet in Medbourne, Rutland ,sadly a pub I never got to visit, was a good example of the worth of the location and the mass of building creating a price tag so high as to render any suggestion of continuing its use as a basic public house unfeasible. I understand the hours were restrictive and trade had diminished, and the owners (or owners family) decided to call it a day.
Admittedly from the photo's in the article on its closure it was a large building, of which the pub was a small part - literally, and in terms of financial contribution - but once it went on the market there was only ever going to be one outcome. (in fact it made the transition to an up-market restaurant, but just like the Crooked Billet in Stoke Row Oxfordshire, thats still a travesty. I understand the restaurant has now closed as well.)
General repairs?
However, sometimes a pub does not have to simply slip into oblivion. My good friend Steve lives in Hastings, approximately 1000 miles South in "Sussex" or similar, and he reports a new lease of life for a listed pub on the National Inventory here.
The Havelock, or the General Havelock, is in Hastings and it would appear from different sources, has previously garnered a rather dubious reputation as a place you wouldn't go to read a paper and sup an IPA from a handled beer mug; or for any other reason (and I am not saying that any of those constituent parts are essential in making a pub good). The photo on the Heritage Pubs site Have a look supports this slightly in that it shows the outside to be quite unprepossessing but the interior, particularly the tiled murals, looks amazing.
It appears that delays have befallen a refurbishment of said pub due to its historical legacy. I think this could be seen as a positive development, and is no doubt linked to its English Heritage listing, if nothing else. Steve suggests that on reopening the pub will be selling real ale, which is always good in an unspoilt pub, and always assuming the essential character and layout is not lost, whilst the magnificent tiling is retained, this could be a real bonus for the people of Hastings, and the UK's pub heritage stock.
I have asked Steve to send me photo's when it reopens.....
And finally...
I have at last found out who RWC, author of the excellent "Classic basic unspoilt pubs of Great Britain" is. Now, all you unspoilt pub aficionados and obsessives will no doubt already know this, but I never knew more than his initials. They stand for Rodney Wolfe Coe (sorry, no idea if hyphen required). This little nugget of info enabled me to find a few more interesting links on the internet (where everything is true remember) and is a satisfying final piece in the jigsaw of understanding who the author was, and whether or not he is still traveling around Britain's best pubs.
I have to credit both Curmudgeon, for a post mentioning the Hop Pole at Risbury (which I was Googling) which led to one respondent mentioning RWC, and the person whom posted that comment, Paul Bailey, who has a beer blog himself. Thanks to both for helping me unravel the mystery.
And crucially, thanks to RWC himself for helping inspire me and many others to seek out traditional unspoilt pubs in the UK.
Wee Beefy
last month I reported that the fantastic but slightly dishevelled New Inn at Hadlow Down in Sussex appeared to be destined for some dreadful enforced "renaissance" from pub and defunct hotel to a restaurant with swanky new hotel and crappy landscaping thrown in. Regrettably in the world of unspoilt pubs, this is not exactly unusual.
Buildings, ignoring the inconvenience of the pub within them, are often seen as piles of cash rather than redoubtable retainers of atmosphere and shared history who's preservation serves to remind future visitors of the stories once told and played out in their walls. The Horse and Trumpet in Medbourne, Rutland ,sadly a pub I never got to visit, was a good example of the worth of the location and the mass of building creating a price tag so high as to render any suggestion of continuing its use as a basic public house unfeasible. I understand the hours were restrictive and trade had diminished, and the owners (or owners family) decided to call it a day.
Admittedly from the photo's in the article on its closure it was a large building, of which the pub was a small part - literally, and in terms of financial contribution - but once it went on the market there was only ever going to be one outcome. (in fact it made the transition to an up-market restaurant, but just like the Crooked Billet in Stoke Row Oxfordshire, thats still a travesty. I understand the restaurant has now closed as well.)
General repairs?
However, sometimes a pub does not have to simply slip into oblivion. My good friend Steve lives in Hastings, approximately 1000 miles South in "Sussex" or similar, and he reports a new lease of life for a listed pub on the National Inventory here.
The Havelock, or the General Havelock, is in Hastings and it would appear from different sources, has previously garnered a rather dubious reputation as a place you wouldn't go to read a paper and sup an IPA from a handled beer mug; or for any other reason (and I am not saying that any of those constituent parts are essential in making a pub good). The photo on the Heritage Pubs site Have a look supports this slightly in that it shows the outside to be quite unprepossessing but the interior, particularly the tiled murals, looks amazing.
It appears that delays have befallen a refurbishment of said pub due to its historical legacy. I think this could be seen as a positive development, and is no doubt linked to its English Heritage listing, if nothing else. Steve suggests that on reopening the pub will be selling real ale, which is always good in an unspoilt pub, and always assuming the essential character and layout is not lost, whilst the magnificent tiling is retained, this could be a real bonus for the people of Hastings, and the UK's pub heritage stock.
I have asked Steve to send me photo's when it reopens.....
And finally...
I have at last found out who RWC, author of the excellent "Classic basic unspoilt pubs of Great Britain" is. Now, all you unspoilt pub aficionados and obsessives will no doubt already know this, but I never knew more than his initials. They stand for Rodney Wolfe Coe (sorry, no idea if hyphen required). This little nugget of info enabled me to find a few more interesting links on the internet (where everything is true remember) and is a satisfying final piece in the jigsaw of understanding who the author was, and whether or not he is still traveling around Britain's best pubs.
I have to credit both Curmudgeon, for a post mentioning the Hop Pole at Risbury (which I was Googling) which led to one respondent mentioning RWC, and the person whom posted that comment, Paul Bailey, who has a beer blog himself. Thanks to both for helping me unravel the mystery.
And crucially, thanks to RWC himself for helping inspire me and many others to seek out traditional unspoilt pubs in the UK.
Wee Beefy
Sunday, 26 February 2012
Cause for concern
Good morning,
I had decided to go through the engaging Classic Basic Unspoilt Pubs of Great Britain (2004) list to make sure by way of Internet searches that (given no English Heritage/CAMRA pub group updates have surfaced in February), all is ticketyboo in the world of unspoilt pub gems. Yet, a fleeting search on my first pub reveals bad things.
Now its useful to issue a caveat here. I am not technically minded enough to work out when the following website entry was created. According to clicking properties its today, but that could be an Internet or computer "in joke" that refuses to list the time the content was originally uploaded.
Either way, if said link is to be believed, bad things are on the horizon for the National Inventory Part 1 listed New Inn at Hadlow Down, Sussex.
Now, its awkward for me, because its chuffing miles away so am unlikely to be down there any time soon to seek clarification to this story. But if you put that inconvenient truth aside for a while, I can plough on regardless with the following scare mongering.
According to an architect, there are plans afoot to completely ruin the New Inn. See crap idea to homogenise otherwise outstanding pub , for a balanced and unbiased opinion on the proposals for this earmarked for destruction pub. Basically, it seems someone (no clients listed, but I assume that's industry standard) wants the pub to be a thriving accommodation and dining venue. Which is fine. Ironically, the pub was a hotel not that long ago, and there is always money to be made in food. although as Tim Martin of Wetherspoons points out, you are taxed on food as well as beer...
Anyhoo, the architect suggests the pub should be turned into a rented rooms atopped restaurant with an unchanged public bar. Now I have been in said bar, *and its fairly unique. Even if it was retained, I can't see it being a good idea to then context-fuck the rest of the building with imported Mediterranean shrubs, glass and wood, and "contemporary" features that leech authenticity from the location as a single, historical edifice. Hence my catchy subtitle for the link. If you are interested to see what the pub looks like at sort of now, here is a much more enjoyable link, to its listing on the National Inventory : New Inn, Hadlow Down exterior and interior .
Not that the tinterweb hosted plans have much detail, but we've all seen the same listless, unremarkable, modern by numbers drivel played out across the UK's pub stock, so why would we think the plans here are any different? Like I say, this plan may already have been dismissed, but if the threat exists that they haven't been, then its imperative to say that this is a truly gross idea.
I am acutely aware that when I visited in 2008 the pub was quite down at heel, presumably struggling, but even though there is optimism for the architectural features preservation (such as the curved bar ceiling), I am failing to see any positive indicators from this plan, and instead perceive that this is a precursor to the pub being turned into another foodie place with an unavoidable embarrassing nod to its past attached, much like the dreadful Hatch at Colemans Hatch not too far away. Mind you, unfriendly restaurant or not, the Hatch does at least still look like a chocolate box country pub. As a forewarning of what awaits, if the plans for the New Inn are followed, the assessment of both pubs by comparison would be this. One pub will lose its reason for existence and outward and much of its inward appearance, whilst the other retains its outward charm, but has already lost its soul. So nobody wins.
So does anyone know what the plans are for the New Inn?
If this is the actual intended demise (sorry, money soiled renaissance) of the pub, could you let me know?
many thanks
Wee Beefy.
*see Wee Beefy's Kentish Casks in the drop down list of posts on the left. Its the first one I posted....
I had decided to go through the engaging Classic Basic Unspoilt Pubs of Great Britain (2004) list to make sure by way of Internet searches that (given no English Heritage/CAMRA pub group updates have surfaced in February), all is ticketyboo in the world of unspoilt pub gems. Yet, a fleeting search on my first pub reveals bad things.
Now its useful to issue a caveat here. I am not technically minded enough to work out when the following website entry was created. According to clicking properties its today, but that could be an Internet or computer "in joke" that refuses to list the time the content was originally uploaded.
Either way, if said link is to be believed, bad things are on the horizon for the National Inventory Part 1 listed New Inn at Hadlow Down, Sussex.
Now, its awkward for me, because its chuffing miles away so am unlikely to be down there any time soon to seek clarification to this story. But if you put that inconvenient truth aside for a while, I can plough on regardless with the following scare mongering.
According to an architect, there are plans afoot to completely ruin the New Inn. See crap idea to homogenise otherwise outstanding pub , for a balanced and unbiased opinion on the proposals for this earmarked for destruction pub. Basically, it seems someone (no clients listed, but I assume that's industry standard) wants the pub to be a thriving accommodation and dining venue. Which is fine. Ironically, the pub was a hotel not that long ago, and there is always money to be made in food. although as Tim Martin of Wetherspoons points out, you are taxed on food as well as beer...
Anyhoo, the architect suggests the pub should be turned into a rented rooms atopped restaurant with an unchanged public bar. Now I have been in said bar, *and its fairly unique. Even if it was retained, I can't see it being a good idea to then context-fuck the rest of the building with imported Mediterranean shrubs, glass and wood, and "contemporary" features that leech authenticity from the location as a single, historical edifice. Hence my catchy subtitle for the link. If you are interested to see what the pub looks like at sort of now, here is a much more enjoyable link, to its listing on the National Inventory : New Inn, Hadlow Down exterior and interior .
Not that the tinterweb hosted plans have much detail, but we've all seen the same listless, unremarkable, modern by numbers drivel played out across the UK's pub stock, so why would we think the plans here are any different? Like I say, this plan may already have been dismissed, but if the threat exists that they haven't been, then its imperative to say that this is a truly gross idea.
I am acutely aware that when I visited in 2008 the pub was quite down at heel, presumably struggling, but even though there is optimism for the architectural features preservation (such as the curved bar ceiling), I am failing to see any positive indicators from this plan, and instead perceive that this is a precursor to the pub being turned into another foodie place with an unavoidable embarrassing nod to its past attached, much like the dreadful Hatch at Colemans Hatch not too far away. Mind you, unfriendly restaurant or not, the Hatch does at least still look like a chocolate box country pub. As a forewarning of what awaits, if the plans for the New Inn are followed, the assessment of both pubs by comparison would be this. One pub will lose its reason for existence and outward and much of its inward appearance, whilst the other retains its outward charm, but has already lost its soul. So nobody wins.
So does anyone know what the plans are for the New Inn?
If this is the actual intended demise (sorry, money soiled renaissance) of the pub, could you let me know?
many thanks
Wee Beefy.
*see Wee Beefy's Kentish Casks in the drop down list of posts on the left. Its the first one I posted....
Friday, 24 February 2012
More Wee Beefy's unspoilt pubs.
Hello,
Lost, even on the Internet
firstly, can I make mention of the fact that I am aware that changing my blog name to be just a beer and pub blog from "Unspoilt British pubs and Cretan kafenions" has ironically ended up generating many more articles about unspoilt pubs. Granted, kafenion coverage is intermittent, but its still a typical scenario whereby you ditch something only for it to return to bite yer on the bum.
Anyway, I had been once again to the Classic Basic Unspoilt pubs of Great Britain list, and was struck by one entry, the Fir Tree at Cornsay Colliery, Co Durham. Not only is it incongruous in the list as it seems to be in an industrial area (almost every other listing is in a small rural location) but its not a million miles from the Dun Cow at Old White Lea. Also, it was similarly noticeable that almost nowt seemed to be findable on the tinterweb about this pub. Even if it closed in 1994 ( after the latest (ish) copy) its surprising that no-one has chosen to remember it.
I have managed to find a few vague references - a man in Oxfordshire references the pubs list, even if not the specific pub, and a local walker to the Cornsay area recounts some details at A rare reference to the Fir Tree (paragraph 7), and local parish records reference the owners in days gone by as being (Fir Tree P.H.) Archbld. Dundonald Tomlinson. Yet, thus far, that's it!
I make reference to this only because, whilst am sure the tinterweb existed, albeit in a foetal form in the early 90's, am guessing that the author RWC didn't or could find no point in using it. So it would appear that he fulfilled his search and compiled his list on hearsay alone. If so, what an inspiration that he could have made such comprehensive investigations on this basis, even though of course, the GBG would have listed some of them. I find it a struggle to unearth unspoilt pubs now using the might of info on the WWW, but even though the passage of time will have put paid to many, its highly probable that in addition to some canny research, much of what the list author knew came from asking people.
Perhaps some choice personal hearsay could unwrap some facts about some of the pubs on my list earlier this week. I would be eternally grateful for any info on open or closed "gems" if anyone has any.
In the meantime, given that I have no image of the Fir Tree since I found out about it only 3 years ago when it was, as tinterweb confirms now, likely a farm, here is a pic of the erstwhile classic that is (was) the Dun Cow at Billy Row, Co. Durham,visited by me, WF and Mr P some months after it shut...
(I recall that another sign, perhaps on the side, proclaimed the "famous Dun Cow Inn". It was a target of mine on 3 trips North but I was scuppered twice by time constraints and unreasonable mileages, and lastly, by it closing down. An account of a visit to the pub was posted by one of the Southern CAMRA branches around 2007 but I can't find it anymore - since then its a patchwork of forlorn memories, not least for me, given my wretched record of visits.
Wee Beefy
Lost, even on the Internet
firstly, can I make mention of the fact that I am aware that changing my blog name to be just a beer and pub blog from "Unspoilt British pubs and Cretan kafenions" has ironically ended up generating many more articles about unspoilt pubs. Granted, kafenion coverage is intermittent, but its still a typical scenario whereby you ditch something only for it to return to bite yer on the bum.
Anyway, I had been once again to the Classic Basic Unspoilt pubs of Great Britain list, and was struck by one entry, the Fir Tree at Cornsay Colliery, Co Durham. Not only is it incongruous in the list as it seems to be in an industrial area (almost every other listing is in a small rural location) but its not a million miles from the Dun Cow at Old White Lea. Also, it was similarly noticeable that almost nowt seemed to be findable on the tinterweb about this pub. Even if it closed in 1994 ( after the latest (ish) copy) its surprising that no-one has chosen to remember it.
I have managed to find a few vague references - a man in Oxfordshire references the pubs list, even if not the specific pub, and a local walker to the Cornsay area recounts some details at A rare reference to the Fir Tree (paragraph 7), and local parish records reference the owners in days gone by as being (Fir Tree P.H.) Archbld. Dundonald Tomlinson. Yet, thus far, that's it!
I make reference to this only because, whilst am sure the tinterweb existed, albeit in a foetal form in the early 90's, am guessing that the author RWC didn't or could find no point in using it. So it would appear that he fulfilled his search and compiled his list on hearsay alone. If so, what an inspiration that he could have made such comprehensive investigations on this basis, even though of course, the GBG would have listed some of them. I find it a struggle to unearth unspoilt pubs now using the might of info on the WWW, but even though the passage of time will have put paid to many, its highly probable that in addition to some canny research, much of what the list author knew came from asking people.
Perhaps some choice personal hearsay could unwrap some facts about some of the pubs on my list earlier this week. I would be eternally grateful for any info on open or closed "gems" if anyone has any.
In the meantime, given that I have no image of the Fir Tree since I found out about it only 3 years ago when it was, as tinterweb confirms now, likely a farm, here is a pic of the erstwhile classic that is (was) the Dun Cow at Billy Row, Co. Durham,visited by me, WF and Mr P some months after it shut...
(I recall that another sign, perhaps on the side, proclaimed the "famous Dun Cow Inn". It was a target of mine on 3 trips North but I was scuppered twice by time constraints and unreasonable mileages, and lastly, by it closing down. An account of a visit to the pub was posted by one of the Southern CAMRA branches around 2007 but I can't find it anymore - since then its a patchwork of forlorn memories, not least for me, given my wretched record of visits.
Wee Beefy
Sunday, 19 February 2012
Legendary houses that sparked my interest in unspoilt pubs
Good evening browsers,
I was going to post a comment on the Boak and Bailey blog (see: Boak and Bailey answer a query about traditional pubs.) but, as is usually the case, I only really go on tinterweb in the late evening, likely at gone 22.00, by which time the beer blogging community has got in there and made most of the worthwhile salient points, and the blog authors, have, gawd blezzum, most likely gone to bed. Or the pub. Usually, if you find a comment of mine on a blog post, its number last. People have already moved on by the time I've dragged my sorry arse on to the topic....
So, this time, I thought, No! I'm not going to be Billy no follow ups.
Instead, I'm going to tell you something that I was inspired to think about by reading the comments in the above post, which has formed the cornerstone of my endless search for amazing pubs over the past 20 years.
End of Memory Lane
When I was 18, maybe 19, WF took me on a day out, or rather a hastily arranged afternoon and evening out, to that Manchester. We were to have a walk in Daisy Nook country park, and hopefully climb the tower at the very top. There was snow on the ground and it was cheerlessly cold as we set out from a dark car park which was crying out to be locked on our return, or the scene of a car theft. Great.
We yomped through the park in fading light roughly following the river for some part, but we had taken a little longer to arrive than anticipated and it soon became clear we wouldn't reach our destination. Besides which said edifice wasn't lit so it seemed unlikely we would get access to the tower at all. We returned to an intact car and drove towards the top of the hill. Wee Fatha mentioned a pub he hadn't been to in decades which was really unspoilt and well worth a visit. Even at my tender late teensage, I had got used to this phraseology. Usually we arrived at a private house. Or a car park. But ever so rarely, very occasionally, we would hit pay dirt. And we did then.
Colliers Arms
The Colliers Arms at Mossley was a legend. Certainly to anyone who knew it - certainly to my Dad who took me there about 20 years after his last visit, and absolutely, to me. I was bowled over by this time warp, this enchanting oddity, this echo of the past. This treasure.
Basically, we turned down a mostly surfaced lane which became a track and then a path. Before the road stopped, on the right, was a cottage, with a low light outside, and a dark almost unreadable sign across it. There were 3 vehicles parked at the lane end with their lights on. People were having a pint in these vehicles. As we parked up amidst a sea of potholes and track lakes, someone got out of one of the cars and said "evenin" as he headed to what looked like an outhouse. He wasn't of course. He was off t't loo.
We entered through a door with another sea like puddle in front of it and I thought we had gone into an adjacent house. A bell sounded, I think, and we saw a corridor to our right. WF reckoned there was a room down the end, but couldn't remember the location of the bar. As we pondered in the dim light the landlord came out of a door on our right.
Apart from saying hello, I kept quiet because I was a bit slow taking this all in. WF on the other hand didn't even blink an eye when the landlord opened up a stable door to his kitchen (you know, whats it called, a two piece door? You get the picture) and proceeded to inform us that Toby light was the beer of choice. There was a font or possibly a handpull (it seems unlikely you could have got cask light, but there you go) on the kitchen side, which me and WF both got a pint from, and being a yoouv, I had to get crisps as well. These were kept in his kitchen cupboard.
Once we were served, and having established that he'd been forced to stop using the room down the corridor because it was too cold, we were led into the living room. He cleared some personal mail and some newspapers off a large table and we sat down with him to watch TV. As you do. So as not to make the experience too incongruous WF set off on his trademark detailed breakdown of our route so far, and to come, and tried, with encouragement but resigned lack of confirmation form the landlord, to recall exactly when he had last been in.
Meanwhile I recall it was something like That's Life that was on, but that's impossible to be sure of, and I didn't really know what I should be doing in this alien environment. So I thumbed through the Radio Times. Meanwhile, The beer was grim and the crisps had more salt than a Utah lake but I didn't care. I knew I was going to have to remember every last detail of this visit. And I think I managed it.
After we left, one of the blokes from the car came in for a sit down, and there were still two left outside supping a pint at the wheel. Its probably a heinous crime, but thinking logically, they were parked up on the pub premises. Really they were in the beer garden. No-one was driving with a pint in one hand. So I guess that was OK... Later we went to the Vale Cottage in Gorton and a rough as you like Holt's pub where we were roundly mocked for having a half. I just wanted to buy a half for under 50p. But to be fair I'd had my highlight already.
Grand old Duke of York
From this point on, I wanted to visit pubs that the very occasion of going in was like a magical story, a yarn in the making. In fact, originally, I even named this blog after my interest in just that type of pub experience, and just that type pf pub.
To tenuously draw you back to the Boak and Bailey link, I should explain that at no point was I going to mention a closed pub ( we went back to the pike about 3 years ago and the pub had been closed a while then) in response to their hosted questions bout homely, traditional hostelries in the UK. I was however reminded of a list of Britain's unspoilt pubs that I had. Now you may think this is another subtle hint about the National Inventory (see my Friends and Links page), but its not.
Although, that and various descriptions in copies of the GBG have been my planning apparatus, it was on my first visit to the brilliant Duke of York at Elton in 1999, (above) some 6 years later, that I was handed a pamphlet by a one time visitor that listed his choice of the finest basic unspoilt pubs in Britain. The thing is, I still have that list but its in a box of paperwork somewhere I guarantee.
So imagine my delight about 3 years ago at finding that someone had hosted the most recent list (updated in 1994) on the internet. I can see from the web version that I had a more up to date version, probably reflecting the author's continuing research, and the fact that some of the pubs on the link below had shut, such as the incredible Hop Pole at Risbury, and the Maenllwyd, at Meidrim in Carmarthenshire. (its not been a pub for a long while, but here is a pic I found on Geograph, submitted, if not taken, in 2007 : Geograph picture of the Maenllwyd Inn, Meidrim. He had also, by that stage, added the Duke of York, and the fabulous Turf Tavern in Bloxwich. Just to throw you off the scent, below is a picture of a pub that isn't on the National or this inventory...
Anyhoo, here is the link of the Internet copy: Classic basic unspoilt pubs of Great Britain 1994 . Given that the authors own introduction suggests that he only started his research in 1993, its perhaps not surprising that some truly brilliant hostelries are missing from the list, although he does claim that he only includes those selling real ale, which regrettably bars some of the more basic entries, and he doesn't appear to have ventured into Scotland, for instance to the Fiddichside Inn at Craigellachie.
Gems to find
Either way though, this is a truly fabulous list, and in some ways, because its not purely architectural as the National Inventory is, its a more vibrant and interesting list, and its very personal attributes are what make it such a treasure. I'd love to think that if RWC was still trawling the UK for examples of basic pubs he or she'd have come across the Butchers Arms at Reapsmoor, Staffordshire, Milbank Arms at Barningham in Co Durham or the redoubtable Cider House in Defford, Worcestershire or the 3 day (maybe only 2 ) a week opening Royal Cottage at a remote crossroads on the Staffordshire Moorlands, (although I concede, he or she would have had to relax their no real ale rule in all but the Butchers!)
Its a sad tale that so many of the pubs on that list and later and which could have been inlcuded have now closed. I note that the Maenllwyd, which I never had chance to visit, was a listed building from April 2002. It seems very surprising then that it was allowed to be converted into a house. Since that list was compiled, The Red ion, Stoke Talmage, the Horse and Trumpet, Medbournbe, the Buck and Bell Long Itchington, the Slip Inn Inn, Barras, and the Queen Adelaide Snelston Common, even the Lodge or Bill and Ben's above Stretton in Derbyshire, have all closed. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
So if nothing else, whether you recognise any of the places on the list, or which I have described, or even if you don't, I can't recommend a better use of your time than to do a modicum of research on the tinterweb, and go out and visit an unspoilt pub today.
Happy hunting!
Wee Beefy
I was going to post a comment on the Boak and Bailey blog (see: Boak and Bailey answer a query about traditional pubs.) but, as is usually the case, I only really go on tinterweb in the late evening, likely at gone 22.00, by which time the beer blogging community has got in there and made most of the worthwhile salient points, and the blog authors, have, gawd blezzum, most likely gone to bed. Or the pub. Usually, if you find a comment of mine on a blog post, its number last. People have already moved on by the time I've dragged my sorry arse on to the topic....
So, this time, I thought, No! I'm not going to be Billy no follow ups.
Instead, I'm going to tell you something that I was inspired to think about by reading the comments in the above post, which has formed the cornerstone of my endless search for amazing pubs over the past 20 years.
End of Memory Lane
When I was 18, maybe 19, WF took me on a day out, or rather a hastily arranged afternoon and evening out, to that Manchester. We were to have a walk in Daisy Nook country park, and hopefully climb the tower at the very top. There was snow on the ground and it was cheerlessly cold as we set out from a dark car park which was crying out to be locked on our return, or the scene of a car theft. Great.
We yomped through the park in fading light roughly following the river for some part, but we had taken a little longer to arrive than anticipated and it soon became clear we wouldn't reach our destination. Besides which said edifice wasn't lit so it seemed unlikely we would get access to the tower at all. We returned to an intact car and drove towards the top of the hill. Wee Fatha mentioned a pub he hadn't been to in decades which was really unspoilt and well worth a visit. Even at my tender late teensage, I had got used to this phraseology. Usually we arrived at a private house. Or a car park. But ever so rarely, very occasionally, we would hit pay dirt. And we did then.
Colliers Arms
The Colliers Arms at Mossley was a legend. Certainly to anyone who knew it - certainly to my Dad who took me there about 20 years after his last visit, and absolutely, to me. I was bowled over by this time warp, this enchanting oddity, this echo of the past. This treasure.
Basically, we turned down a mostly surfaced lane which became a track and then a path. Before the road stopped, on the right, was a cottage, with a low light outside, and a dark almost unreadable sign across it. There were 3 vehicles parked at the lane end with their lights on. People were having a pint in these vehicles. As we parked up amidst a sea of potholes and track lakes, someone got out of one of the cars and said "evenin" as he headed to what looked like an outhouse. He wasn't of course. He was off t't loo.
We entered through a door with another sea like puddle in front of it and I thought we had gone into an adjacent house. A bell sounded, I think, and we saw a corridor to our right. WF reckoned there was a room down the end, but couldn't remember the location of the bar. As we pondered in the dim light the landlord came out of a door on our right.
Apart from saying hello, I kept quiet because I was a bit slow taking this all in. WF on the other hand didn't even blink an eye when the landlord opened up a stable door to his kitchen (you know, whats it called, a two piece door? You get the picture) and proceeded to inform us that Toby light was the beer of choice. There was a font or possibly a handpull (it seems unlikely you could have got cask light, but there you go) on the kitchen side, which me and WF both got a pint from, and being a yoouv, I had to get crisps as well. These were kept in his kitchen cupboard.
Once we were served, and having established that he'd been forced to stop using the room down the corridor because it was too cold, we were led into the living room. He cleared some personal mail and some newspapers off a large table and we sat down with him to watch TV. As you do. So as not to make the experience too incongruous WF set off on his trademark detailed breakdown of our route so far, and to come, and tried, with encouragement but resigned lack of confirmation form the landlord, to recall exactly when he had last been in.
Meanwhile I recall it was something like That's Life that was on, but that's impossible to be sure of, and I didn't really know what I should be doing in this alien environment. So I thumbed through the Radio Times. Meanwhile, The beer was grim and the crisps had more salt than a Utah lake but I didn't care. I knew I was going to have to remember every last detail of this visit. And I think I managed it.
After we left, one of the blokes from the car came in for a sit down, and there were still two left outside supping a pint at the wheel. Its probably a heinous crime, but thinking logically, they were parked up on the pub premises. Really they were in the beer garden. No-one was driving with a pint in one hand. So I guess that was OK... Later we went to the Vale Cottage in Gorton and a rough as you like Holt's pub where we were roundly mocked for having a half. I just wanted to buy a half for under 50p. But to be fair I'd had my highlight already.
Grand old Duke of York
From this point on, I wanted to visit pubs that the very occasion of going in was like a magical story, a yarn in the making. In fact, originally, I even named this blog after my interest in just that type of pub experience, and just that type pf pub.
To tenuously draw you back to the Boak and Bailey link, I should explain that at no point was I going to mention a closed pub ( we went back to the pike about 3 years ago and the pub had been closed a while then) in response to their hosted questions bout homely, traditional hostelries in the UK. I was however reminded of a list of Britain's unspoilt pubs that I had. Now you may think this is another subtle hint about the National Inventory (see my Friends and Links page), but its not.
Although, that and various descriptions in copies of the GBG have been my planning apparatus, it was on my first visit to the brilliant Duke of York at Elton in 1999, (above) some 6 years later, that I was handed a pamphlet by a one time visitor that listed his choice of the finest basic unspoilt pubs in Britain. The thing is, I still have that list but its in a box of paperwork somewhere I guarantee.
So imagine my delight about 3 years ago at finding that someone had hosted the most recent list (updated in 1994) on the internet. I can see from the web version that I had a more up to date version, probably reflecting the author's continuing research, and the fact that some of the pubs on the link below had shut, such as the incredible Hop Pole at Risbury, and the Maenllwyd, at Meidrim in Carmarthenshire. (its not been a pub for a long while, but here is a pic I found on Geograph, submitted, if not taken, in 2007 : Geograph picture of the Maenllwyd Inn, Meidrim. He had also, by that stage, added the Duke of York, and the fabulous Turf Tavern in Bloxwich. Just to throw you off the scent, below is a picture of a pub that isn't on the National or this inventory...
Anyhoo, here is the link of the Internet copy: Classic basic unspoilt pubs of Great Britain 1994 . Given that the authors own introduction suggests that he only started his research in 1993, its perhaps not surprising that some truly brilliant hostelries are missing from the list, although he does claim that he only includes those selling real ale, which regrettably bars some of the more basic entries, and he doesn't appear to have ventured into Scotland, for instance to the Fiddichside Inn at Craigellachie.
Gems to find
Either way though, this is a truly fabulous list, and in some ways, because its not purely architectural as the National Inventory is, its a more vibrant and interesting list, and its very personal attributes are what make it such a treasure. I'd love to think that if RWC was still trawling the UK for examples of basic pubs he or she'd have come across the Butchers Arms at Reapsmoor, Staffordshire, Milbank Arms at Barningham in Co Durham or the redoubtable Cider House in Defford, Worcestershire or the 3 day (maybe only 2 ) a week opening Royal Cottage at a remote crossroads on the Staffordshire Moorlands, (although I concede, he or she would have had to relax their no real ale rule in all but the Butchers!)
Its a sad tale that so many of the pubs on that list and later and which could have been inlcuded have now closed. I note that the Maenllwyd, which I never had chance to visit, was a listed building from April 2002. It seems very surprising then that it was allowed to be converted into a house. Since that list was compiled, The Red ion, Stoke Talmage, the Horse and Trumpet, Medbournbe, the Buck and Bell Long Itchington, the Slip Inn Inn, Barras, and the Queen Adelaide Snelston Common, even the Lodge or Bill and Ben's above Stretton in Derbyshire, have all closed. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
So if nothing else, whether you recognise any of the places on the list, or which I have described, or even if you don't, I can't recommend a better use of your time than to do a modicum of research on the tinterweb, and go out and visit an unspoilt pub today.
Happy hunting!
Wee Beefy
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